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Regarding meta-progression, I think it’s mostly what target audience you want to hit: those who are more casual and don’t like the grind vs ones that want something to strive for or completionists.
IIRC, Loop Hero’s progression felt good only because it was tied in with the main story, so maybe that’s a good example?
I'm going to be weird and vote for Rama, it's my favorite aspect
Way to spin, Dan.
I feel like this series has proven that the meta progression is not incredibly necessary though, like you got a death defiance and beat it next run. Obv you have a lot on people who just start at the game but it clearly rewards just getting good as much as it rewards the meta progression
Take the Zagspect. Dash like a madman.
I like Hades' meta progression with the exception of the bounty system. It incentivizes you to increase heat 1 at a time and it ends up not being difficult enough while also taking a very long time to get enough titan's blood to max out all the aspects.
Against the Storm did meta progression the best of anything I've played that I can recall. Basically, newer more specialized buildings and races get unlocked, but it's balanced out by the fact that "specialized" isn't necessarily better and you're diluting the pool of existing draft options for every new thing you unlock. It forcibly takes you outside of your comfort Zone by design, but it never feels rushed, it's gradually, never beyond your capacity at the time.
I believe a lot of meta progression can be helpful for new players to help them learn different elements without getting too overwhelmed, while also getting comfortable with the basics of the game.
Here in Hades for example, a lot of players start pretty slowly, often having trouble using casts and specials at all, barely dodging and so on. So it makes sense to hold off on the call for a little while. And they probably also haven't really gotten a hang of the basics of the weapons, so throwing in hammer upgrades and aspects only adds noise while you're figuring out dash strikes, reloads, and all that. Same with mechanics from the mirror, like not asking you to immediately try to think about backstabs, lodging casts, rerolls and such, all at once.
Of course, there are also many elements of meta progression that are simple power level boosts. Extra starting health or gold, improved boon rarity, etc. So, some of it does seem to be also implemented mostly to artificially block you from winning too early (or make it easier to win as time goes on, depending on how you look at it). I'm not really sure how much I like that stuff either, but there are certainly games where that is better done and less annoying than others.
I also think it's fun to have some stuff locked behind certain game accomplishments, or "achievements", so to speak. Going after some of the locked Balatro jokers was kinda fun to me, for example, and it encouraged experimenting with different strategies. Although that can also be annoying if the conditions are too obscure or RNG-reliant, like some of the weapon's hidden aspects from Hades can be.
Chaos shield for the chaos gods!
I'm really enjoying this series. When I got back into Hades last year, I started watching your videos and I thought I sucked ass, but then I realized I just didn't have all the meta progression unlocked. It's nice to see the difference it makes even for a seasoned player. It's also exciting to watch when it's actually a struggle for you. Early game is like it's own difficulty mode distinct from high heat
ANVIL FOR THE CONTENT
zeus!
Regarding the meta-progression talk prior to the Elysium mid-shop, I think an interesting way to make sure players can buy some stuff even with a bad run in Hades specifically would be to allow the obols to be kept upon return to the house, but decay prior to entering a new run. Maybe you have 200 gold left in your pocket when you die, and there's some kind of meta-currency exchange counter where you could trade it for darkness or gems, etc. This isn't a perfect solution, since maybe you just blew your money at the shop only to get trounced by a boss, but I think it's better than what we currently have, though I'm not terribly bothered by the current situation.
Beloved Achilles, making the special feel fun to use
You Rock
-Sincerely Bouldy
I think part of the reason Hades is so successful at making its meta grind palatable is because the story beats last roughly the same amount of time it takes players to get all the essential meta progression stuff. Most games with meta progression don't have nearly as much story as SGG, and that's why they feel so grindy. You do a run, you spend your meta, do a run, meta, etc. While hades adds the third element of story progression with its cast of characters. Its a godlike roguelike for a reason
meta progression done well:
i think Balatro, unlocking stronger jokers, makes it a bit more easy, interesting and more complex.
The meta progression and the general difficulty progression in Hades is really interesting. Early on it gets easier almost exponentially, as you unlock the mirror, get better aspects and get better at the game yourself. After that with higher and higher heat it turns around and gets more difficult almost exponentially as well (going from 0 to 10 heat is way easier than going from 30 to 40). Somewhere in between there is this sweet spot of perfect balance, around the time the mirror and aspects are fully unlocked and you are struggling to beat the 32 heat barrier. There is quite some grinding involved in getting to that place, but it's a roguelike after all.
Thesues fight: He will change phase and start to summon at 50% health w/o EM, and at 33% health with EM3 on
to answer your question from the 16:50 mark regarding meta progression, i enjoyed it while i was starting this game as it gave tangible goals to achieve while i learned how to play the game. additionally, it's been pretty satisfying watching you unlock stuff and hearing your rationale behind your choices. i've watched most, if not all of your hades videos, and this series is probably my favorite. i legitimately look forward to each new one. keep up the great content!
I love meta progression in Hades, it's really well made, however, I wish the last bit wasn't so grindy; I beat 32 heat and got to the epilogue and still didn't have full mirror (had to reset everytime to get what I wanted)